Bill Cipher vs Alien X | Fandom (2024)

1) Bill being capable of "destroying the fabric of existence" isn't really anything impressive from a VS perspective. It's far more reasonable to assume that Bill's weirdness would eventually spread and grow to that point, but more so as a thing that happens eventually, not something Bill himself is capable of on a whim. Time Baby himself specifically states that it could do such, meaning there's a potential chance for it to not do so, just that the likelihood is so high that he and the Time Police wouldn't want to risk it.

Think of it like if Goku kept charging his Kamehameha for an infinite amount of time. Eventually, it's going to surpass what we've seen it capable of, and probably do some real damage... but the fact that it takes so long is what essentially makes it non-applicable to a debate.

2) When it comes to the destruction of the 2nd Dimension, I feel the exact same reasoning can be applied. Over time, Bill's reality-warping Weirdmageddon became too much for that part of reality to handle, causing its eventual destruction, but it wasn't an immediate thing, or even something we have an actual timeframe for.

3) I don't think being able to control Time, Space and Matter constitutes multiversal power by any means.

Just as an example, another Ben 10 alien - Clockwork - has full control over the aspect of time, from seeing alterations in it to reversing and fast-forwarding it, to making things accelerate (and likely decelerate) in ageing.

He has full control over the aspect of time, more so than Bill has ever shown (especially since Bill could only get control of time once Time Baby was gone)... but he's not even close to the same level that Bill is at when it comes to hax and the like. Sure, Bill being in control of those things contribute to his overwhelming power, but they aren't what'd make him those tiers.

Not to mention the fact that, since Alien X can do those things as well, they essentially cancel one another out, making the entire point null and void.

4) Bill being a threat to the multiverse, again, is more likely than nought focusing on the long-term effects of what Bill could do, and not what he's immediately capable of with his own strength. Goku was stated as a threat to his universe by Beerus, but that isn't what made him Uni in power.

5) "Bill is only co*cky/arrogant towards Humans". Quite simply, no. The Nightmare Realm Demons that he summons as goons are very much not human, and he also bosses them around and takes them less seriously. Even when dealing with the Time Baby, he has this sort of relaxed demeanour to him - he knows how powerful Time Baby is, but he also knows that he'd be a pest for his schemes.

To say that Bill would treat Alien X like a threat, purely because he's not human, isn't a justifiable reason based on interactions with Bill in Gravity Falls itself.

6) Ford grew to the size of a galaxy, not a universe. While it could be inferred to as one, it's far more similar to a galaxy than most depictions of the universe.

7) "Bill threatening the multiverse means he can kill 11D beings"

Said "11D beings" are hardly known about when it comes to the lore, and from what we've seen are incredibly unimpressive. They made spaceships, crashed into the Eath (which presumably killed a lot of them, making them not even town level), built civilisations, and died over the course of 30 million years.

Just being classified as an 11 Dimensional being doesn't mean it also applies in the VS sense, nor does potentially scaling over one.

8) Dipper and Mabel, two human children who could barely even be classified as peak human, used a grappling hook, pepper spray and a grow/shrink flashlight to escape Mr. 11D Multiversal Destroying God, and for all intents and purposes, they almost got away.

Also, the Stans tricking Bill into his defeat is absolutely something that Ben can exploit, if not by just "blinking and wiping him from existence", then certainly by using an Echo Echo clone to trick Bill into entering his mind, so another/the actual Ben could then erase him that way.

Not saying that Ben would know to do that, but it's most certainly a thing that he could do.

9) Bill saying "reality is an illusion" could mean several things. It could mean that he himself is jaded to the point that he doesn't believe anything is real, which contributes to the chaos he surrounds himself in. It could be a tactic meant to give those he tells it to a sense of dread and anxiety at the fact that their entire world could be nothing. Or it could just have been a joke.

Regardless, I don't think this changes the validity of Bill's little "simulation" of the world in which Ford gave in, the fact that Bill himself could control how it looked proves that it's entirely possible he could have misconstrued it to amp himself (and Ford) up. And, even if we believed everything there to be true, it still wouldn't measure up to what Alien X was capable of, or at the very least just make it a little more of a stalemate.

10) The Nightmare Realm demons follow him because he's their ally, plain and simple. We don't even know how powerful they are, as we've seen very little of what they're capable of.

And the galaxy thing, as legitimate as it is, doesn't help your argument either.

11) "Bill wins since he grew to the size of a universe (even though it was a galaxy, Ford was the one who did it, it was in an illusion that wasn't even the real Bill, and Celestialsapiens are equally as capable of changing their size magnitudes larger), has hax that can bypass the failsafe (even though the failsafe isn't really even a major factor), and can go through time (something Alien X can also do, can tell that he's doing, and follow after him to prevent).

I think Alien X wins because:

- He has consistently shown what he is capable of through feats, with statements being understandable and supporting evidence. Bill, meanwhile, is almost entirely built upon these statements, unknowns and mirages he himself made.

- Has just as much, if not more, in terms of abilities that he's capable of using, meaning he can match Bill when it comes to practically whatever he throws at him, while also being able to dish it back - something which would be extremely effective, seeing as we haven't seen Bill go up against someone of similar power, and he's been harmed/effected by much, much weaker

- On a similar point, is a far more powerful foe to Bill than anyone in Gravity Falls. The most powerful beings in the verse are a Baby who controls time (which Alien X can also do, and whose physical form needed to be destroyed for Bill to control time as well), and 11 Dimensional aliens who died from a crash landing millions of years prior to the series. Neither come close to what Alien X has done, to be frank.

- And Bill's egotistical and relaxed personality makes it so Ben has a much, much easier time of ending things earlier